Like A Child featuring Randall Goodgame

Apr 25

Written By

Singer-Songwriter Randall Goodgame may be a new generation's Mister Rogers. Infusing seemingly silly kids songs with life-inspiring truths, Goodgame's kids music event — wonderfully-titled Slugs & Bugs — has turned into an all-ages family affair. Our conversation is both parts fun and thoughtful — just like Randall. Don't miss a single episode of Dinner Conversations. Subscribe below!

Transcript

Mark: Dinner Conversations is brought to you by Food for the Hungry, a relief and development organization serving those in need around the globe for more than 40 years.

Andrew: Help our friends at Food for the Hungry save thousands of refugee lives today by considering a generous gift.

Mark: A gift that will be matched 22 times.

Andrew: It's incredible, visit fh.org/dinner to give now.

Mark: Today our guest is Randall Goodgame. Now I had never heard of Randall because I don't have kids or grandkids, and he has a ministry to children. I mean, an incredible, he’s like a modern day Mister Rogers. And he takes Scripture and puts it to music.

Andrew: Mm-hmm, Randall's an incredible guy. I don't have kids or grandkids either. Randall's just a friend of mine here in Nashville, and Slugs & Bugs is the name of his series, a really fun series again about why is it important, one, to know Scripture, not only as children but as adults and how he is helping families literally hide the word of God in their hearts through music.

Mark: And we have one seat left at the table, and it's yours. So let's join the conversation.

Mark: So, how did you become the Mister Rogers of the Christian world?

Randall: Oh my goodness, is that what I am?

Mark: Well, that's what I heard. I've heard that you really have an incredible ministry to young people. You set Scriptures to music, which is not easy 'cause it doesn't meter like a song should. And evidently kids are responding.

Randall: Well, I guess so. So let me just say, 'cause you mentioned him, Fred Rogers, huge hero of mine, those slippers would be too big for me to fit. But yes, so I'm super inspired by getting to sing to kids, but also families, parents and kids together.

Andrew: 'Cause you started out, I mean, you've written songs for other Christian artists, for yourself--

Mark: Caedmon's Call.

Andrew: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Jenny, one of our good friends Jenny Owens, which we've had on the show. But I think about it, yeah, kinda reiterating Mark. How did you first get into the kids' music mess? What first got you there?

Randall: Okay, so the doorway was a record that I made with our friend, Andrew Peterson, you guys know. So he and I did a side project back in 2006, and it was just meant to be just a side project with songs that we wrote for our kids. And then that CD got on the radar of VeggieTales. So they called us and said, “Hey, would you write silly songs for us?” And we're like, "Yes, amazing.” So we wrote silly songs for VeggieTales for a couple of years. And for Andrew, it was just something fun that we got to do. For me, it helped me realize, oh, wow, I love thinking about families, parents and kids, and it was like VeggieTales said, "Here's five minutes. Write a silly song and tens of thousands of families are gonna sit down and watch this together.” And to me that felt like this opportunity to really do something deeply meaningful. And our job was to be silly, but I was really drawn to the impact that you could have if you did have the attention of a parent and a child at the same time.

Andrew: Well, in families, they way I think about how Slugs & Bugs works musically, it's more acoustic driven. I think it's more astute artistically than kids' records that are all digitized or whatever, even the vocals. When you have people like Andrew Peterson on it or Bart Millard from MercyMe, I mean, there's adults playing into it for the kids, and so it seems to me that parents are probably less annoyed by Slugs & Bugs than other kids' music I've experienced.

Randall: That is definitely the goal. I mean, I guess that's the lowest bar. Don't be annoyed is the lowest bar. What we really want is for them to go, oh my gosh, let's play that again.

Mark: And that's what I-- Ellie was here. Ellie Holcomb was here, and I overheard her talking to you about what an impact you've had on her kids. You must hear that from a lot of parents.

Randall: It never gets old, I'll tell you that.

Mark: No, doesn't it? It doesn't it.

Andrew: Do you think they’re saying and more than impact on our kids, like it's impact on, like I don't sit in the car and listen to Scripture all day, so to have that resource where I'm playing music for my kids, but then Scripture's actually going through my mind and heart too. Would you say parents are part of the demographic when you're thinking about making a record?

Randall: Oh, absolutely. So, the last four Slugs & Bugs CDs I've made with our friend Ben Shive he and I make a list of all the people that we want, individual people that we want to love this record. And so we'll have one of his daughters' names on there, we'll have my wife on there, we'll have my brother's wife down in Houston, we'll have my cousin, different adults and different kids, so we're thinking about specific people with specific tastes ‘cause the goal is to reach everybody so that that whole family, from the grandparents to the three-year-olds are all glad when someone puts it in.

Mark: Well, if you're like me and you've never heard of this--

Andrew: Slugs & Bugs.

Mark: Well, yeah, I have no children, I have no grandchildren, but many of you watching do. I would say go get it. I guess they can get it from your website?

Randall: Yeah--

Mark: Which is what?

Randall: slugsandbugs.com

Mark: Where'd you come up with Slugs & Bugs?

Randall: It was from a lyric. There's a song that I wrote, it goes, God made slugs and bugs and rats and bats and nasty bees that don't say please. They'll sting your elbows and your knees if you chase them.

Mark: If you just what?

Randall: If you chase them, if you chase them.

Mark: Oh, if you chase them. I will make sure I don't do that.

Randall: I mean, but I didn't start writing the Scripture songs. I wrote silly songs kinda like that for a couple of years for Slugs & Bugs, and then what got me to the Scripture songs was we were homeschooling and it was my job to teach the kids bible and music.

Mark: Wow.

Randall: It was my two jobs. So a big part of bible, right, memorizing Scripture, seems like I can figure this out. No, no. It was so hard.

Andrew: It is hard.

Randall: Yeah. I mean, it's hard. We all know it's hard for us, but then as a parent you think, okay, I'm gonna teach my kids and they're gonna memorize Scripture. And it just didn't work.

Mark: So there was a need.

Randall: So there was a need, and so I started writing melodies--

Mark: What's the first one you wrote?

Randall: The first one was, Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him and He will direct your path.

Mark: Wow.

Randall: So trust in the Lord with all your heart. Sorry.

Mark: And the kids pick up on that.

Randall: They learned it. And the thing that they kept… They would memorize a verse for a week, but then two weeks later they would've forgotten the one from two weeks before. But what we found was a month later, two months later, they were still remembering the verses. And then, since it worked so well for them, it just made sense to wanna try--

Mark: Well, making the Scriptures meter like we think a song should do, if you're gonna teach a songwriting course, learning how to meter would be part of it.

Randall: For sure.

Mark: So Scriptures, what Scripture has been the biggest challenge?

Randall: Oh man.

Andrew: Jesus wept.

Mark: No, no, no. I mean, surely. Also, how do you choose which Scriptures to use?

Randall: Well, right, usually I'm thinking about themes. So this past record, the one that comes out, it's just come out, Sing the Bible, Volume 3, the theme is the life and words of Jesus. So things that He said, or things about Him or His mission and that seemed like they would fit together, the things that He said that I want my kids to remember first. I'm thinking about my children and then all the other families that listen to Slugs & Bugs, their children. So something as simple as I am the vine, you are the branches, and then the verse that goes to there, abide in me as I in you and as the branch will not bare fruit by itself unless you abide in the vine. But then, so simple passages like that, all the way to the passage from Colossians that’s He is the image of the invisible God first born among all creation and so on. I mean, I could tell you... Personally, I always say, all these Scripture songs, they serve me first, because I wind up memorizing, well, Scripture, which I never would've done if I hadn't had to do that for others.

Mark: I want copies. Let's all get copies. We can memorize Scriptures the easy way.

Randall: I brought some.

Mark: Oh, good. I love memorizing Scripture, but I do love memorizing The Message 'cause it's easier for me to understand.

Andrew: Do you think it's more musical in some ways?

Mark: I think it's more poetic for me. Like when he says that line about learn the unforced rhythms of grace.

Randall: Hmm, wow.

Mark: Where it says, "Are you tired, worn out, burned out on religion? Come to me, get away with me, and you'll recover your life. I'll show you how to take a real rest. Walk with me, work with me, watch how I do it. Learn the unforced rhythms of grace.” I mean, the man's a poet.

Andrew: That's the come unto me, you who are weary--

Mark: Yeah, it's beautiful.

Randall: Wow.

Andrew: Well, in a world of relativity, I think we live in a culture that there's a lot of relativity, relative truth.

Mark: Now what? Wait, wait. What is relative truth?

Andrew: Relative truth would be like your own truth.

Mark: I don't believe in that.

Andrew: So there's a-- I agree. We would agree on that. Culturally, I don't think that's the agreement.

Mark: Oh, you mean the culture.

Andrew: The culture, today's culture. Would you agree with that and there's this part of helping raise children, why is truth so important?

Mark: Yeah, yeah. How do we get back to that, where people know the truth, and what is that? I mean, when I was growing up, we didn't have craziness going on. I mean, at least they kept it hidden. That's better. No, I'm kidding. We didn't hear it on the news. No, but I'm sorry. I should’ve let your question lay. What was it?

Andrew: Or linger.

Randall: I know what you're saying though. And maybe it means that as parents that know the truth, there is absolute truth, Jesus is the truth, that we just have to work that much harder to make sure that we exhibit that trust and faith in Him in the home, so that kids, they go out into the world, but they come home. So I think one of the things that can sometimes help lead kids to leave the church is that they, at home, the home ends up just reflecting the culture too. And so why cling to the rules if it doesn't really impact them the way that we are.

Andrew: Sure. Or no one told me they were important even. I heard them, but no one said this is important because. And music is such a generous medium. I think about, the bible has been used in toxic ways in some people's lives. That's another reason sometimes people get a bad view of Scripture or a bad view of God as represented in the Scripture. I feel like teaching the Scripture through music is a very gracious way of… Have you found that to be true with your kids, or even from your upbringing, being like, this is the way the bible was used that I wouldn't agree with. Music has given us a way to express it with grace.

Randall: It is. It's safer than just making someone read. If you say, "Hey, let's learn this song,” it feels a little less intimidating. And I mean, you're certainly joining an ancient tradition.

Mark: How cool would that be to have a kid and I could just see when you were singing the song about conqueror, more than conquerors, we are more than conquerors, I can just see a little kid on that just singing at the top of his lungs like I used to do between Nanny and Papa. That's back when we didn't care about our kids so much, and you could stand up in the front seat. You remember that?

Randall: Oh yeah, sure.

Mark: You might be too young for that, but I'm thankful. Is there anyone else doing what you're doing? I mean, I know there are--

Randall: Sure.

Andrew: Children's music.

Mark: Children's ministers, and there are also writers, publishers that do children's-- But a guy that goes around and just creates for children, I don't know that many. Do you?

Randall: There's guys out there, like Seeds Family Worship, guys here in town, they do a great job.

Mark: Well, that's great.

Randall: But, I mean, you can't have too much of that for sure.

Andrew: Well, I wanna take it back to what you said about more than conquerors. Can you imagine seeing a kid standing up singing that? They're singing it now maybe without as much personal experience with what it means to be more than a conqueror through Christ. Maybe they haven’t experienced certain hardships. I mean, I as a child, it was not until I was in college that I really experienced personal experiences that caused me to doubt or where I had to lean on my faith and really trust and learn to trust in God. I think about that. If I learned that as an 8-year-old, I'm more than a conqueror through Jesus, how that will come back to me because of how you are tutoring kids and Scripture through music. I would probably end up singing that chorus as a 21-year-old--

Randall: And it would mean a lot more to you.

Andrew: Yeah, I mean, isn’t that kind of the point of hiding Scripture in our heart?

Randall: Yeah, that is the whole, I mean, a huge motivator for me. Knowing that these kids, just like when you teach your kids at home by parents, we have to keep in mind that this is a long game, right? You're gonna have to say it again and again and again, and then suddenly, they're gonna be 19 and it’ll just be part of who they are. And same thing with these songs. If you just sing them over and over and over, eventually they just become part of who you are, and there's something about music that, not that it means more necessarily 'cause it still means the same thing, but there's some kinda alchemy that happens with singing. I mean, that's what, right? That’s what the angels are doing forever. They're singing. They're not just saying, "Holy, holy, holy." They're singing it. And so there's something unique about song. That song is a good example, the we are more than conquerors. I can read that passage, "For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor demons, nor the present, the future, any powers, nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all Creation shall be able to separate us from the love of Jesus Christ our Lord.” I can read that, still get a little chills, but if I sing it, I have to keep it together because of the meaning that is sort of pumping out. There's something else that's happening. There's a passage in Ephesians that says, "I pray that you will…" Oh, it's how's, whatever it says, a knowledge that you grasp the Gospel, a knowledge beyond knowledge, where there's something other than just knowledge that's happening. There's something else. That's how He wants us to know the Lord, and I think there's something that happens with music that's similar that happens.

Andrew: It connects us in that place.

Mark: Have you found a Scripture that you haven't been able to figure out how to make it work?

Randall: Oh, I'm sure. Yeah, every time. Every time I go in to making a record, I have more Scripture than I could ever fit, and then some of them, I'm working at it and I'm working at it and I'm working at it, and I get it. And then sometimes it's just--

Mark: Not yet.

Randall: Not yet. That's a good way to put it. Not yet.

Andrew: I'd probably just go, I don't like that Scripture.

Mark: Oh, ain't it great? What a great co-writer you're working with.

Randall: Yes, yes.

Mark: He collects all of the royalties.

Andrew: Oh, that's funny. That's a great one.

Mark: If you hear the right translation.

Randall: That's right. Certain translations are more expensive than others. That's true.

Randall Goodgame singing “More Than Conquerors”

Who shall separate us from the love of Christ
Shall trouble or hardship, persecution
Or famine or nakedness
Danger or sword
No, in all these things
We are more than conquerors
Through Him who loved us
Through Him who loved us
More than conquerors
We are more than conquerors

For I am convinced that neither death nor life
Nor angels nor demons
Nor the present, the future, nor any powers
Neither height, nor death
Nor anything else in all Creation
Shall be able to separate us
From the love of God
That is in Jesus Christ, our Lord
No, in all these things
We are more than conquerors
Through Him who loved us
Through Him who loved us
More than conquerors
We are more than conquerors

No, in all these things
We are more than conquerors
Through Him who loved us
Through Him who loved us
More than conquerors
We are more than conquerors
More than conquerors
Through Him who loved us
Through Him who loved us
More than conquerors
We are more than conquerors
We are more than conquerors

Food for the Hungry Sponsorship Message

Mark: Dinner Conversations is brought to you by Food for the Hungry, a relief and development organization serving those in need around the globe for more than 40 years. And right now Food for the Hungry is helping hundreds of thousands of Rohingya refugees in Bangladesh.

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Mark: So $25 becomes $550, $50 becomes $1,100, and so on. Countless families urgently need our help. Donate to Food for the Hungry today, and your generous gift will literally help save lives.

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Andrew: You were saying something about Gloria Gaither. Talking about kids, I think sometimes in the context--

Mark: She contends that kids-- Like my college professors told me that the King James Version, which was what we always used, is on a third grade reading level. And Gloria says we don’t need to dumb down anything for children. They can get it. They're smarter than we think, and they love big words.

Randall: Sure, yeah.

Mark: Even conqueror, what a great word.

Andrew: And mysterious concepts.

Mark: And I really think that they haven't been-- That's why babies are born mute because if they could talk, they'd tell us what God was like. I think they come from God. Of course I believe the bible says that, and that's why they have to come mute. And what you're doing is early on reminding them where they come from with those Scriptures, reminding them of home.

Randall: Well, you know, it reminds me of Luke 18. Actually, it's in all three of the first Gospels, where it says, Jesus says to his disciples, unless you come like a child, we can't come into the Kingdom of Heaven. And for me, that means a lot of things, but that sense of--

Mark: Wonder.

Randall: Well, there's, yeah, wonder for sure. But also, I mean, I hadn’t thought about the fact that they're mute. But I think a lot about how they're messy and needy and they run to you and ask you what they need, they tell you what they need, and without reservation, they're not shy about it. They expect you to provide for them. So all of those ways, the Lord is saying, unless you are needy for me, are willing to be messy in front of me, are willing to tell me what you need right away. And think about how children are so quick to forgive. Children, my kids, I might yell at ‘em and then later be like, "I'm sorry."

Mark: I think one more thing--

Randall: “I forgive you.”

Mark: They are-- Is that they-- When it says, come as a child, my pastor said one time, and I loved this, you've gotta forget everything you think you know about God. We're starting with a clean slate. Jesus said, come to me like a child. 'Cause, you know, He did. He had to correct a lotta stuff.

Andrew: And everything you’ve been told about God, to actually reopen the Scripture to say, I desire to discover Him, instead of saying, oh, this is what I've been told Scripture says about you. Open it up. Who are you? And which I think is the clean slate idea.

Randall: So people say that you should-- A lot of times people are tempted to dumb things down for kids. And there's that quote that's often attributed to different philosophers or theologians about the gospel is deep enough for an elephant to swim in, but shallow enough for a little baby to play. But I think where we trip up as adults is we think that it's complex, and we wanna dumb it down because we think that it's something to know instead of someone to know.

Mark: Ooh.

Randall: Kids are always-- They're ready to meet you, and yeah, it's gonna be too complex if you want them to learn a bunch of things. But if you say, "This is your Savior. He loves you, and He knows you. This is a person,” then they get to grow and understand the gospel at the level that they're supposed to at whatever age they are.

Mark: I applaud you, and I pray to God you got a good 20 years left to reach the kids.

Randall Goodgame singing “Let the Children Come to Me”

Let the children come to me
Let the children come to me
Do not hinder them for to such
Belongs the Kingdom of God
Let the children come to me
Let the children come to me
Do not hinder them for to such
Belongs the Kingdom of God

Truly I say to you
Whoever will not receive the
Kingdom of God like a child
Shall not enter it
Truly I say to you
Whoever will not receive the
Kingdom of God like a child
Shall not enter it

Food for the Hungry Sponsorship Message

Mark: You can help save thousands of lives by giving a generous gift to Food for the Hungry today.

Andrew: Your gift will directly help Rohingya refugees who are currently living in dire, poverty stricken refugee camp conditions in Bangladesh.

Mark: And get this, your gift will be matched 22 times for an exponential impact. Food for the Hungry is on the ground now providing medical treatment to hundreds of thousands of these vulnerable children and their families.

Andrew: This is the example that has been set for us by Jesus that we would help our neighbors in their time of need, and this is what Food for the Hungry is doing to help relieve the refugee crisis in Bangladesh. So you can give today. Partner with Dinner Conversations as we partner with Food for the Hungry by giving generously at fh.org/dinner.

Mark: To learn more about Dinner Conversations, visit dinner-conversations.com.

Andrew: And while you're there, check out our Season One DVD with all of our past episodes and some bonus stuff, as well as check out these cool show mugs.

Mark: Yeah, so when we have our next conversation, you can have coffee with us. Let's get back to the conversation.

Mark: When did you come to know the Lord personally?

Randall: So I grew up in the Baptist church, always going to church with my parents. But I remember as a Baptist kid, you're always hearing, say the sinner's prayer, come down the aisle and stuff. And I had never done that, and I remembered-- I remember being in science class in fifth grade, and I got picked on a bunch and wasn't happy, and I remember sitting about halfway back in the class and just bowing my head and saying the prayer. "Lord, I need You. This must be what it means to realize that I need--" Whatever I'm sure it was in a fifth grader's language, but I raised my eyes and the heavens opened.

Andrew: And clouds said Slugs & Bugs. A last kind of question, what have you learned-- I'm really interested in this. As you've incorporated Scripture into music for children and then see children on the road, seeing your own children learn Scripture, incorporate in their lives, what have you learned about God through observing children? Or through your relationships with children, your own children? You see a lot of children.

Randall: Yeah, okay, so definitely I have learned his long suffering because as a parent, you know you're constantly having to be patient, and I know that every time I have to be patient with my kids, I have to be confronted with the reality that the Lord has to be much, much, much, much more patient with me. So for sure, and actually what comes to mind as I mentioned earlier, but when I play my concerts, it's always kinda messy. The children, there’s always some kid losing it. At least one kid, and I don't know why, maybe he's hungry, didn't get his nap.

Mark: You have to sing over that.

Randall: Yeah, well, so, what I see, what ends up happening is a mom or a dad or somebody will end up scooping them up, taking them out of the room and going back into some room somewhere and then maybe eventually brings him back in. And what I know has happened in those minutes where he's been gone is whenever that parent, whichever it was, they took him out into a room, and they just held him. And they patted him, and they comforted him or her and said, "Oh, it's okay. It's gonna be okay.” Whatever they needed, brought 'em whatever they needed, whether it was something to eat or just a hug or just time to settle down, and they bring them back in, and I think every time that happens that that's what the Lord does for me. So watching other parents has been a gift for me in that way, and it reframes for me disturbances in a concert because I see that and I’m like, oh, thank you, Lord for the reminder of what You're like. So, I'd say in a way that’s something that parents and kids are constantly reminding me of.

Mark: That's good.

Andrew: That's beautiful. Do you need a hug?

Randall: Could I have a hug? I always need a hug.

Mark: Let's sing. It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood. A beautiful day in our neighborhood You--

Mark: If you don't know the words, don't sing it. Would you be mine. That's all. I'm out of-- I've always wanted to live in a neighborhood with you.

Andrew: Mister Rogers wasn't around when you were a kid, right?

Mark: Uh-uh, but I overhear it. Let's make the most of this beautiful day. Since we're together, we might as well say good night. Would you be mine? Could you be mine? Won't you be my neighbor? And I loved him.

Randall: Yeah, man.

Andrew: It's a great melody too. It's kinda--

Mark: He wrote it.

Andrew: He did?

Randall: Thanks, Mark.

Mark: I wanna learn 'em too.

Andrew: You got 15 more to go.

Randall: I always say--

Mark: Oh. It's my phone.

Randall: I know that song too.

Mark: That means it's over and I got to go.

Mark: Dinner Conversations is brought to you by Food for the Hungry, a relief and development organization serving those in need around the globe for more than 40 years.

Andrew: Help our friends at Food for the Hungry save thousands of refugee lives today by considering a generous gift.

Mark: A gift that will be matched 22 times.

Andrew: It's incredible. Visit fh.org/dinner to give now.

Join Mark and Andrew as we support our Dinner Conversations Season Two title sponsor, Food for the Hungry (FH) — a relief and development organization serving those in need around the globe for more than 40 years.

Partner with us as we partner with FH save thousands of Rohingyan refugee lives in Bangladesh today by considering a generous gift — a gift that will be matched 22-times! And remember, every dollar enters you into the Season Two Grand Prize Giveaway, which includes dinner with Mark and Andrew in Houston, plus more surprises.

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